i said yes. everyone is happy for me. except this is what my dad had to say. i have to say a lot (not all, especially that we "dont stand a chance" and the idea that ponge will need to support me? hello we will support each other and as i will work in the non-profit world its not like i will make a shit ton of money either) of what he says makes sense. you know my thing is that i still love virginia. shit.
Hello Kelly, It is late, and I have been thinking of course about you, Ponge and your futures. The more I think about it the more it becomes clear that it is a premature and ill-conceived idea. I speak of Ponge coming to the US and the effects on him. He is, whatever Faith and howsoever well intended with you after all a man. That being said, I do not think you realize the effects on him when he will be here looking for work, having a wife, (and children to follow) and having almost no language skills, no marketable skills with which to earn a living and/or decent wage, the horrendous culture shock, and what the accumulative effect will be on his mind, disposition, (pride) self-worth, and general feelings It is to throw him into a cauldron without any swimming skills. I fear he will fragment quickly. Can you put yourself in his shoes? .
actually i think i am quite well positioned to have an understanding about all of this since i have gone through this myself here and survived
If you two are heartfully serious about making a long-term life commitment to one another, you will need to do a number of things to prepare yourselves to assure its success. First he must have a good understanding of the language and money. Even under the best of circumstances it would be greatly challenging to a couple. To know each other for 6 months and come to the US when one does not have a basic clue about what he is about to experience is rather poor judgment at best. It is hard for me to understand how a usually bright young woman as you could rationalize this ill-conceived idea at this time. If you two are going to stand a snowballs chance he must have language and marketable skills. well, these he will gain with time and i have no doubt of his commitment to do so and i look with patience and joy towards teaching him
It sure looks like a setup for trouble. If as you mentioned you are doing this because of time frame limits, you better re-think the whole thing and regroup. The resentments, disappointments and frustrations will be many and long coming. I do believe this is a classic example of love being blind.
there is some truth to this, but its not that simple either
I encourage you to do some research into success rates of international/interracial marriages especially where the Spiritual alignments are not in place. They are almost non-existent.
i dont really give a shit about statistics and anyway the first lesson you learn in a stat class is that Stats Do Not Apply to Individual Cases; that is why they are statistics and not facts
He will sometime here meet another Muslim person, female, possibly Senegalese. They will naturally have immediate and important things in common. I fear for you both as this is the norm. These are genuine and very important considerations which must be addressed by the two of you.
well there are certainly shittons of muslim senegalese women here to pick from; although perhaps this is not the same in-country...but thats like me saying i will meet another american here in senegal and so he shouldnt marry me
Can the two of you speak enough common language to do this? yes
See? That is just the beginning of what is ill-fated if done. There are many who have had the great, strong and genuine attractions for each other that you two are experiencing. Myself included with a Hawaiian/French Samoan.fuck he acts like the reason i want to be with ponge is because he is "exotic"
It took long consideration to realize the simple truth and face it as individuals with honorable intent. You must realize and put his well-being ahead of other things. Such as longing for dreams come true, and emotions making the decisions. There is a formula for things such as these, that being: I over E. Which is to say: intellect over emotion.
i disagree, humans have emotions and intellect and i think a balance of listening to both is important, rather than pretending you are some robot; i believe in accepting the whole of me/everything with all its divisions and contradictions and seemingly incompatible beliefs and feelings. this is why zen and buddhism appeals to me. calm.
I am truly sorry that I must write these things to your tender heart. The two of you, as is, do not stand a chance.
first of all i disagree second of all how the hell do you know and third i appreciate an opinion but a declaration of something like that is a little self-important, n'est-ce pas?
No language skills. No monetary skills. Too anxious to please, getting selves into trouble. Job market poor for the most qualified. No way to support his wife. i didnt go to college to have my husband support me. i will support myself thankyouverymuch. and you know so much about the job market ye who nearly never worked all your life? there are jobs in the states; maybe not nice ones but an actual job you can actually work. we ahve one of the strongest economies in the world, shit. dont talk to me about jobs
Devastation to his sense of self. Significant Religious differences. Dramatic cultural differences, you are dreaming...what about the kids???? Will they be Muslim? Will they be agnostic? Will you allow male rule? Will he not follow that when push comes to shove?
Will push come to shove? What basic common ground do you two have? What specific common grounds have you established? How can you communicate effectively without common language? Are you always sure of what you hear? And are you heard?
damn calm down. you think he and i havent talked about these things? in some ways we can communicate more effectively because of the language, i am nearly fluent in french although i make grammar errors and i am getting stronger in wolof all the time and he will learn english really fast since it will just be one language to learn and there are things i can express in one language that are difficult to express in another so actually we have an advantage in communication..
Tuff stuff but these things need answers and full exploration BEFORE a Marriage is considered. You two haven't had time to even scratch the surfaces. Haven't had time to identify the surfaces...you set yourselves up for much disappointment. How about the kids? I am sorry. I would much rather write these things now than help you hurt yourselves. If you cannot change your mind/s, AT LEAST take the time needed to learn language, money, culture, Religions, and come to agreements on how the kids will be raised, under what circumstances would either of you end the Marriage, where would the Children go? Why even put children through it? Why risk putting children through it?
children are beautifyl and seriously do you regret that you had me as ill conceived as that was? you and mom werent married long and you put her through hell with your boozing and drug use but if you could do it again would you choose not to have nathan and i? what about david? your illegimate, adultered child? certainly that was ill-conceived and "why put him throuh it?" but are you going to say you wish he wasnt born and you had done it differently? seriously.
You must plan with your intellects, not let emotion and time crunches make these decisions for you. You need more time to establish numerous important steps. Take some time and see where it goes. You need more time. It is late, I am worried that you will not see the truth in this. You are ill-prepared, he is even more so. With all my love, and a great deal of concern for your common-sense futures. Dad. i had decided that if it was our "destiny" then he would be granted the VISA and could live with me in the states and we would see. but then the parts of me that wanted to say yes got loud and got vocalized.
dad systematically listed everyone of the fears and doubts (more in the conversation than just what he wrote here) i had thought of and i didnt really have a response..except that i am in love and i want ponge to come with me to the states. now all my fears are loud again, and my regrets over what i could have might have had with virginia..
lets see, how did this happen?
okay, i met this boy and we dated. i wasnt serious and didnt trust him and was lots thinking about v: then it got serious and i love him and trust him and still think about v: then i hate living in ouakam and i am invited to live with ponge and i am happy to do so and dont regret that although i probably could have told my family in a better way what i was about to do: um then i find out about the different types of VISAs and the most sure is the fiance VISA but you have to get married 3 months after he is in the states and i do not want to do this but i want him to come over so bad and i dont want to lose him: then we talk about marriage and i keep asking him questions about things in the future and how he feels about certain things and he keeps giving me satisfactory answers and i keep imagining our life together and i keep liking what i see and but its so soon and he hasnt seen me in my culture..: i float yes i want to no i dont yes no yes no yes no: then one day (monday) i am sick and chilling in bed with ponge and he asks me what im thinking about, i tell him he knows we play back and forth and we are engaged: we pick a date, we tell people and everyone is really happy or just thinks it is totally natural and normal, we start to plan we have the space figured out i get easily approved by various figures in the community who if they say no its no: i talk to my mom, congratulations she says, im coming the flights are booked: i talk to my dad. i advise against it, you are doomed, you havent thought this through you should wait bad bad bad i get an email from v who is sad about what there may have been between us. i am sad too i dont want to let her go. i dont want to let him go. i want to listen to my dad. i can tell people he forbade it, it is language that people would understand here... SHIT
two lives call me two lives tell me of beauty and love and creation and they are Separate lives..
i always said
-not ever*
-not young*
-not soon*
-not with any single doubt in my heart*
i am young. it is soon. but above all, i have doubts. shouldnt a marriage be with No Doubts WhatSoEver? o or does that ever exist? arent there always doubts in life but we do the best we can and i follow my tao
dad told me to get some space by myself to reflect and pray. i dont know about prayer but in my own way i can do that except there is no space here to be alone. the closest thing i have to reflection time is this fucking diary.
i need insence, i need my tarot cards. i only do tarot for myself, and i only do it for major crisis. i guess its my tool to think when there are heavy emotions involved.
i need to be alone.
ponge suggested the beach, i laughed. its not possible for me to go ANYWHERE and be alone because i stick out and/so people always come up to talk to me. always.
this idea is not well thought out. actually it is well thought out and im doing that which some of my well thoughts told me not to. but im excited too but i have no concept of the future really after the first couple years or months i kind of feel like ill play it by ear but i play everything by ear and its all worked out well so far.
fear.**
truth;***
truth is
senegal is deeply integrated in who i am now. it is in this context that i love ponge that i can imagine our lives forever and our kids and our joy and getting old and further integrating into his community and
truth is
i dont know what the states will do to us. i imagine with joy, showing him life there. i imagine that his going there will give him a deeper understanding of who i am; and a deeper appreciation of how life in senegal is difficult for me at times. but one finds tools to cope. one adjusts. we are strong people. i believe his determination to succeed will outweigh the problems he confronts there. and in mpls he will have the american friends he knows here. emily; casie, desola, helen. there is a senegalese community there, he can find connection and support there as well. and if he does meet someone? well thats like saying you shouldnt date someone because you might break up. life is risks as well. his family supports us, his family tells him not to fuck me over. he promises himself,me,them that he wont. as a baay fall, as a human. he loves me, he thinks i am courageous and strong, he is proud to be at my side.
truth is our chances are good for success. i talked with him about what my dad said, he said our strength was our love for one another: that my dad was reacting in a way that a father might but he will see that i have "un mari exemplaire" (an extraordinary/exemplary husband)
truth is our chances are good for success but i still have doubts about whether i should do this.
truth is its a lot harder to go back at this point and the fact that we already told a ton of people is influencing me to not go back on it.
truth is i marry not just him but his family and society, and this makes me happy.
truth is im split again, i was split 50/50 before then i wasnt i was happy then now i am and its v and dad that are my source of stress, confusion//
the truth is i dont know if i could do a non-monogamous relationship very easily again at this poing.
truth is a major reason i am going the marriage route is the whole visa thing. truth is i feel like if it doesnt work there is always divorce. when i thought about getting married i thought to myself - am i ready to be a divorcee someday? because this is a possibility.
truth is i wish i was at home (my moms house) not sorting through all this shit. instead i was petting the cat and maybe going to fix myself some granola and rice milk (i am obsessed with this simple former staple i miss)
im at the end of my little rope and i am swinging back and forth about you.
do it call it off do it wait round and round the absence of conclusion goes. i havent paid for anything yet
this is fucking up my ability to concentrate on my internship.
breathing.
this is what my mom had to say/
Kelly, don't let your dad upset you. I have the feeling that underneath
all
he said is the religious aspect. You and I know there IS no way to
prepare
someone for the culture shock. Keep in mind your dad has worked maybe 2
years in his whole life and doesn't even know what can be done if you
put
your mind to it. He says the employment situation is hard here - he has
no
clue about the rest of the world, does he. I wouldn't want you to be
supporting Ponge forever either, like I did with your dad, but I don't
feel
in the position to judge what he might do here based on his not having
work
there. If you are comfortable with it, I trust your judgment, and I'm
sure
you have thought about this. You already know it won't be easy. That's
ok, I
think this can make you stronger as a couple. By the way, the djembe
teacher
is Senegalese and married to an American woman, and they seem happy and
successful enough.
Peace,
Gail
fuck i love my mom!
yeah. its gonna be hard at times. i love v. but i think we can love each other as friends of an unusual understanding, without the sex part. the she that she is is the most important part to me, not the sex although that was fun too. and we can still do naughty photography, i mean thats art right? and people here are all really touchy, like guys hold each others hands and stuff and girls dance all slutty with each other its just not supposed to mean anything.. i want to continue that and the mpls crew are like that
so having circled through my fears again and been honest with myself about some things and directly having my father tell me i dont have a chance and that ponge will dump me for someone when we get there i still feel this is some thing that can work... as life is uncertain; if it doesnt then it doesnt but as i do with other things i will figure it out as i go along.
